Ops,I’ve got both the wheel spacers and lowering springs 😭😭😭😭
Depending on the application they can work out, lowering springs will generally have stiffer rates so they’re acceptable, but challenging since there is no adjustment. Wheel spacers are a bit unpredictable - can cause drastic effects depending on the suspension setup, or very little influence at all.
Well if your springs are matched to your shocks in rates, then I doubt you’re doing it wrong. Having mismatched springs and shocks, as well as having lowering springs on the same rates as OEM is a problem. Spacers are not a problem if they’re reasonable, and while true - you want the same amount of thread on the bolt in the wheel, you can always go stud conversion.
As someone who has a vehicle as a daily driver, I’d like to lower it and increase the handling a little bit. However, lowering springs are one fifth the cost of coilovers (minimum). Would it still be better to spend the extra on coilovers? It’s not a dedicated racecar, although I do enjoy the corners.
In my personal experience of two cars, the suspension gave out in less than 1 year after lowering springs were put on my Scion and less than 1.5 years on my Mazda. If it’s something you plan to keep around, may as well opt for the coilovers and have an adjustable comfort level AND lowering degree. Otherwise nothing wrong with lowering springs, just be prepared to pony up for new shocks in the front and rear not too long after (which in all of my cases were MORE expensive than a quality coilover setup). Now on my Hyundai Genesis Coupe, I wouldn’t waste the money. Coilovers, or deal with it IMHO.
I am running on springs+shocks, lowering aftermarket, and I’ve driven same make/model on coilovers, and I did not see that much performance gain from coils. They’re there, sure, but they’re only really evident on a racetrack.
Easy solution, shocks are prone to failure with or without lowering springs. Just buy a set of shocks with lifetime warranty on them and go the cheaper route of lowering springs. IMO, if the car isn’t going to do much racing it doesn’t need the coilover setup, because it will fail to, and replacing an entire coilover is a lot more expensive than swapping out a cheap, or free shock if you have that warranty I told you about wink wink. Also, a stiffer ride isn’t that much of a problem, considering your get used to it quickly. Many times, if the drop is very subtle the spring rate won’t change enough to be noticed.
Nothing wrong with lower springs as long as the spring rate is increased and you get matching or stiffer shock absorbers (dampers) as well and while changing these parts it’s always a recommendation but not a necessity to get a wheel alignment
I’ve learned about the stiff lowering springs the hard way… As I was taking a quite bumpy corner in the wet, my car started ‘jumping’ at the back & I crashed. Lowering springs costed me €200. A coilover set would’ve cost me around €500-€800, but then I’d still have my car… Long term: coilovers are cheaper
If you were driving the way I think you were driving coilovers couldn’t have saved you either. edit: and by that I mean speeding
That’s not inherently true. Coilovers can be expensive and high quality while being bad for bumpy roads. Some kits are just too harsh and don’t absorb the irregularities well.
Sounds like you’ve got a solid rear axle? If so, they will do that in the dry. You’ve got to be experienced when turning over bumps in a car with a solid rear axle, or you will crash
So, are lowering springs + suitable shocks recommended or not? I want to lower my car a little, it’s in need of new rear shocks anyway, but coil overs are at least twice the price.
A good set of lowering spring and suitable shocks will most likely improve your handling.
For the price of all that, coilovers would be a better bet. The prices are just too comparable to not go for them.
There’s a reason the coil overs cost more. They’re worth it
I have lift springs on my Honda. 😂
Meanwhile I’m sitting on 4 point leaf springs
LoL, old school trucks. My Explorer runs leaf springs on the back.
Hello EE, fellow mechanical engineer here. I have a comment regarding your points on wheel spacers. You said that a lot of the problems associated can be resolved by using rims with correct offset. Now, all thats doing is basically the same thing: bringing the contact patch more out, thus upsetting the suspension in the exact same way, since all the spacers are effectively doing is reducing the rim offset. Of course its less dodgy and you have better thread engagement, but the changes to the suspension geometry are exactly the same.
yeah he kinda went against his earlier statement. In another video he did explain that spacers and/or rims with really different offsets have these negative effects. only thing is that wheels with the offset you want are still the less dodgy option I actually based my offset on that particular video, I’ve now got ET40 where it was first ET50 so it shouldn’t be too much of an issue. and according to some fora my car really benefits from 10mm spacers in the front (or ET40)
Moving the contact patch out also shouldn’t affect the wheel rate seeing as balljoints don’t translate moments. If anything it will raise the roll center and reduce roll.
The problem is, from what I’ve heard, most spacers start to vibrate, and worst case scenerio wheels fall off. I know of a lot of shops who won’t do it, and a lot of guys on the forums that always day it’s a safety concern and not to do it. The handling might improve, but that’s until it breaks.
As far as I’m informed, those clamps are used to prevent springs from flopping around while changing them. As I know, they are a TOOL with temporary use which doesn’t stay on the car after changing process is completed. Correct me if I’m wrong
What youre thinking of are spring “compressors”. Rather that compressing one small segment of the spring like the clamps do, the spring compressor compresses almost your entire spring, compressing it so far that the spring is shorter than the damper allowing you to get your top hat off… also a spring compressor is way too bulky to fit on an operating car
I’m running 1in spacers on my rear wheels because the wheels I have are too wide and would rub in the wheel well.
Not long after I lowered my Fiat by 40mm with matching springs and dampers my bushes wore out, but it did improve the handling even if only slightly. This also could be coincidence as I was approaching the 90k miles mark when it happened.
The 14 inch Abarth wheels are fitted to the Seicento using a spacer and this was from the factory. I still have the standard 13’s but I’ll be getting the 14’s so I can upgrade to rear discs.
Stock bushing are very bad, switch to Polyurethane and everything will do ok.
Comments
Ops,I’ve got both the wheel spacers and lowering springs 😭😭😭😭
Depending on the application they can work out, lowering springs will generally have stiffer rates so they’re acceptable, but challenging since there is no adjustment. Wheel spacers are a bit unpredictable - can cause drastic effects depending on the suspension setup, or very little influence at all.
Well if your springs are matched to your shocks in rates, then I doubt you’re doing it wrong. Having mismatched springs and shocks, as well as having lowering springs on the same rates as OEM is a problem. Spacers are not a problem if they’re reasonable, and while true - you want the same amount of thread on the bolt in the wheel, you can always go stud conversion.
As someone who has a vehicle as a daily driver, I’d like to lower it and increase the handling a little bit. However, lowering springs are one fifth the cost of coilovers (minimum). Would it still be better to spend the extra on coilovers? It’s not a dedicated racecar, although I do enjoy the corners.
In my personal experience of two cars, the suspension gave out in less than 1 year after lowering springs were put on my Scion and less than 1.5 years on my Mazda. If it’s something you plan to keep around, may as well opt for the coilovers and have an adjustable comfort level AND lowering degree. Otherwise nothing wrong with lowering springs, just be prepared to pony up for new shocks in the front and rear not too long after (which in all of my cases were MORE expensive than a quality coilover setup). Now on my Hyundai Genesis Coupe, I wouldn’t waste the money. Coilovers, or deal with it IMHO.
I am running on springs+shocks, lowering aftermarket, and I’ve driven same make/model on coilovers, and I did not see that much performance gain from coils. They’re there, sure, but they’re only really evident on a racetrack.
Easy solution, shocks are prone to failure with or without lowering springs. Just buy a set of shocks with lifetime warranty on them and go the cheaper route of lowering springs.
IMO, if the car isn’t going to do much racing it doesn’t need the coilover setup, because it will fail to, and replacing an entire coilover is a lot more expensive than swapping out a cheap, or free shock if you have that warranty I told you about wink wink. Also, a stiffer ride isn’t that much of a problem, considering your get used to it quickly.
Many times, if the drop is very subtle the spring rate won’t change enough to be noticed.
Nothing wrong with lower springs as long as the spring rate is increased and you get matching or stiffer shock absorbers (dampers) as well and while changing these parts it’s always a recommendation but not a necessity to get a wheel alignment
I’ve learned about the stiff lowering springs the hard way… As I was taking a quite bumpy corner in the wet, my car started ‘jumping’ at the back & I crashed. Lowering springs costed me €200. A coilover set would’ve cost me around €500-€800, but then I’d still have my car… Long term: coilovers are cheaper
If you were driving the way I think you were driving coilovers couldn’t have saved you either.
edit: and by that I mean speeding
That’s not inherently true.
Coilovers can be expensive and high quality while being bad for bumpy roads. Some kits are just too harsh and don’t absorb the irregularities well.
Sounds like you’ve got a solid rear axle? If so, they will do that in the dry. You’ve got to be experienced when turning over bumps in a car with a solid rear axle, or you will crash
So, are lowering springs + suitable shocks recommended or not? I want to lower my car a little, it’s in need of new rear shocks anyway, but coil overs are at least twice the price.
A good set of lowering spring and suitable shocks will most likely improve your handling.
For the price of all that, coilovers would be a better bet. The prices are just too comparable to not go for them.
There’s a reason the coil overs cost more. They’re worth it
I have lift springs on my Honda. 😂
Meanwhile I’m sitting on 4 point leaf springs
LoL, old school trucks. My Explorer runs leaf springs on the back.
Hello EE,
fellow mechanical engineer here.
I have a comment regarding your points on wheel spacers.
You said that a lot of the problems associated can be resolved by using rims with correct offset. Now, all thats doing is basically the same thing: bringing the contact patch more out, thus upsetting the suspension in the exact same way, since all the spacers are effectively doing is reducing the rim offset. Of course its less dodgy and you have better thread engagement, but the changes to the suspension geometry are exactly the same.
yeah he kinda went against his earlier statement.
In another video he did explain that spacers and/or rims with really different offsets have these negative effects.
only thing is that wheels with the offset you want are still the less dodgy option
I actually based my offset on that particular video, I’ve now got ET40 where it was first ET50 so it shouldn’t be too much of an issue. and according to some fora my car really benefits from 10mm spacers in the front (or ET40)
Moving the contact patch out also shouldn’t affect the wheel rate seeing as balljoints don’t translate moments. If anything it will raise the roll center and reduce roll.
The problem is, from what I’ve heard, most spacers start to vibrate, and worst case scenerio wheels fall off. I know of a lot of shops who won’t do it, and a lot of guys on the forums that always day it’s a safety concern and not to do it. The handling might improve, but that’s until it breaks.
As far as I’m informed, those clamps are used to prevent springs from flopping around while changing them. As I know, they are a TOOL with temporary use which doesn’t stay on the car after changing process is completed. Correct me if I’m wrong
What youre thinking of are spring “compressors”. Rather that compressing one small segment of the spring like the clamps do, the spring compressor compresses almost your entire spring, compressing it so far that the spring is shorter than the damper allowing you to get your top hat off… also a spring compressor is way too bulky to fit on an operating car
I’m running 1in spacers on my rear wheels because the wheels I have are too wide and would rub in the wheel well.
Not long after I lowered my Fiat by 40mm with matching springs and dampers my bushes wore out, but it did improve the handling even if only slightly. This also could be coincidence as I was approaching the 90k miles mark when it happened.
The 14 inch Abarth wheels are fitted to the Seicento using a spacer and this was from the factory. I still have the standard 13’s but I’ll be getting the 14’s so I can upgrade to rear discs.
Stock bushing are very bad, switch to Polyurethane and everything will do ok.